Bill C-33 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999

This enactment amends the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 to provide for the efficient regulation of fuels.
It also provides for a periodic and comprehensive review of the environmental and economic aspects of biofuel production in Canada by a committee of Parliament.

Motions in amendment

[The Deputy Speaker, Bill Blaikie]

Order, please. The hon. member for Western Arctic should ask questions of the hon. member and not of the Speaker. He should be saying “does he think” rather than “do you think”.

The hon. member for Ottawa South.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when we talk about a review, I do not see any material difference between what we are contemplating here and, for example, the five-year mandatory review that is built into the Canadian Environmental Protection Act as a whole. That is something that was just completed at committee, which delivered up I think profound recommendations for change and improvements and enhancements to improve CEPA and how it is, for example, operationalized in the Canadian context. That is my first response.

Second, it is true that choices will be made. Investment decisions will be made. I have every confidence in the free market in Canada. I have every confidence in farmers. I have every confidence in investors and in companies that are going to be following this emerging market very carefully.

They know that investing in cellulosic ethanol, for example, and making a quantum leap into those kinds of feedstocks to generate the cellulosic ethanol is probably going to be a wiser and more intelligent investment than not.

It may take some transition time in some parts of the country. We know that cellulosic ethanol has much less impact in terms of GHGs and on the atmosphere as a whole.

I do have confidence that people will begin by beginning. They will start by starting and they will invest and they will build this sector. In 24 months, I think, we will be able to make a mid-course correction shot. We will examine it and we will make improvements.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the hon. member. I have worked with the member on the committee before, so I understand his passion for the environment, much like my own and much like this government's. Indeed, I know he is happy that this government has moved forward with the estimated 5% renewable fuel standard in Canada because it would obviously equal somewhere in the neighbourhood of a four megatonne reduction in net GHG emissions which is great news for Canadians. That is actually equivalent to 1 million cars taken off the road.

The member mentioned that we are not aggressive enough on this side of the House. I would argue that point. I would ask him specifically this. The fuel industry has indicated that indeed these are aggressive targets and they can be met by the dates that we have set, but there is an issue of capacity in the distribution of infrastructure for this upgraded capacity. How does he see that we would meet these additional requirements, if indeed as his leader has suggested we have this additional target of an increased percentage in the fuels themselves even though we do not have the distribution capacity at this stage to do so?

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not agree that it is a distribution problem. I do not believe that it is strictly a distribution problem. I think there are a few things that the government should keep in mind.

First, why is it that Ontario, that represents 47% of the Canadian economy, has made the quantum leap to 10% by 2010? Why is it that Ontario can do it but the federal government cannot?

Perhaps the government could bring in a coherent policy that did not, on the one hand, remove the excise tax exemptions to actually help kickstart the sector while bringing in an inferior standard of 5%. Perhaps we could actually have more coherence between fiscal, agricultural and environmental policy. After all, it is the government that has, I am told, some kind of cabinet committee that is trying to reconcile energy, environmental and financial considerations.

Clearly, I do not think that this policy has been put through that gauntlet. I do not think that we have seen, here, this kind of baby given birth to really reflect the need, in the way that our leader of the opposition speaks about all the time, to really integrate environmental, social and economic considerations.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, to address the amendment proposed by the NDP. First of all, it is an amendment to Bill C-33, a bill intended to provide for the efficient regulation of fuels. This bill would amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999.

The amendment reads as follows:

That Bill C-33, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 3 with the following: “Canada, including a review of the progress made in the preparation and implementation of the regulations referred to in subsection 140(1), should be undertaken by such commit-”.

This amendment is meant to improve a clause added by the committee. This addition specifies that a thorough analysis of the environmental and economic aspects of biofuel production in Canada should include an analysis of any progress made regarding the regulations developed and enacted by the governor in council. This will allow for a more thorough assessment of the impact of biofuel production and the enforcement of the related regulations.

Today we had a fine example of that in this House. The leader of the Bloc Québécois opened question period with a question on the famine that is occurring throughout the world because grains, a basic food source, are becoming increasingly less available to certain people. This is connected to the current production of corn and other grains in the world that are not being used for human consumption. We are using the soil and cultivation to produce ethanol.

We can, and rightfully so, ask the government to increase its humanitarian aid to 0.7% of its gross domestic product. However, it is still illogical for the government to be presenting programs to convert cereal crops to ethanol, when people around the world are dying of hunger because they do not have enough grains. I was listening to the Liberals earlier. They want ethanol production to increase.

One of the advantages of this amendment is that it will have us look at other existing technologies. We have cellulosic ethanol, for which we can use fibre, agricultural and wood waste to produce ethanol. There has not been enough research yet to release this product on the market, but the product exists.

We need to find ways to solve the problems we are causing by producing ethanol from grains. We have to find a way of doing this. I understand that, because it promotes producing oil from the oil sands, the Conservative government is trying to ease its conscience by producing ethanol, but if ethanol production is creating a world famine, then it is not a better option. Parties have to stop setting short-term political goals in order to get elected. We have to try to save the planet and, above all, protect the peoples living on the planet.

One way to do this would be to make an amendment that would provide for a review of the environmental and economic aspects of production. That would enable us to examine all the new technologies and change direction while there is still time. While we are setting ethanol production targets to gradually reduce our dependence on oil, we could choose the right type of ethanol to produce, cellulosic ethanol, which would come from agricultural and wood waste, instead of ethanol from grains. We saw this today. Around the world, the media are reporting a grain famine. Grains often form the basis for people's diets. They are the basic foods for survival.

That is why members will not be surprised that the Bloc Québécois is in favour of this motion. This is the direction the Bloc Québécois wants to take in committee.

When discussions on the production of ethanol are held, we must focus on cellulosic ethanol, increase budgets for research and development, and think more about stopping the use of ethanol made from grain crops. Instead of using crop land, we should use forestry and agricultural waste. These fibres could be used to produce ethanol in a way that does not harm the production of grain, which often forms the basis for feeding humanity.

We will be in favour of this amendment. In committee, the Bloc Québécois will defend the interests of Quebeckers. We are the only party in this House that defends the interests of Quebeckers. At the same time, it is clear that Quebeckers do not want anyone to go hungry, but do not want to sacrifice energy production. This needs to be done using waste instead of crops.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my Bloc Québécois colleague. I would like to ask him a very simple question. He says that he is in favour of the motion by the member for Western Arctic that refers to a review of the progress made in the preparation and implementation of the regulations referred to in subsection 140(1). I do not understand his reasoning. I do not understand the difference between what is proposed here in the motion and what is already provided for in the bill, which says:

—every two years thereafter, a comprehensive review of the environmental and economic aspects of biofuel production in Canada should be undertaken by such committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament as may be designated or established by the Senate or the House of Commons, or by both Houses of Parliament, as the case may be, for that purpose.

I do not understand exactly how this motion would change what is already provided for in clause 8 on page 3 of the bill. In my opinion, it is clear that this is already covered. Every two years, there will be a review of exactly what should be reviewed.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question, which he answered himself. The amendment proposes that the review take place immediately, rather than after two years. I have been trying for some time to explain that we are helping to create a world famine with the way we produce ethanol. We must therefore not wait two years before looking at the economic and environmental impacts of what we are doing now. We must conduct a review immediately.

It is simple. We will maintain that position. You will understand that the Bloc Québécois, in committee, will want to refocus ethanol production immediately on cellulosic ethanol rather than grain ethanol, which uses a portion of the world's food supply to produce energy. We need to conduct a review right away, not after two years.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on Bill C-33, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, and on the amendment put forward by the NDP.

As I said earlier, I do not see why the amendment is necessary. There is already a review in the act and I think the amendment is redundant. Many of the aspects of what the NDP is trying to do through the amendment are already covered by the review process established in the bill.

The bill gives the authority to allow for the efficient regulation of fuels. In so doing, it does open up opportunities for the biofuel industries in quite a number of areas, especially for ethanol and biodiesel.

With the bill in place it should give some confidence to investors to put up the kind of capital required to build plant capacity for the refining of those fuels. As we all know, without that assurance in terms of industry being willing to invest, there will not be a market for the products coming from the farms, be it corn for ethanol or, in my neighbourhood, new varieties of canola for biodiesel.

This is also a benefit to our environment by utilizing these fuels and therefore producing fewer greenhouse gases. The evidence is certainly in on that area.

I realize, though, that there is some controversy. As I said earlier, I do not think there is any question that in the next decade for sure, and probably beyond, there is going to be a constant debate between the linkages and the conflicts between food policy, energy policy and environmental policy. We need to be at the forefront of that debate.

We hear it and I am sure you hear it, Mr. Speaker. There is the whole debate about whether we should be using what could be called a food product to fuel SUVs. There have to be other policies in concert with this one to try to limit the wasteful use of fuels that is adding to greenhouse gases. There has to be a lot done in that area as well.

One such area is the whole area of transportation policy. I raised a question with the Minister of Transport the other day, who basically ignored my question. My question was on the government doing a costing review following the study by the Canadian Wheat Board and the Canadian Federation of Agriculture that showed the railways are gouging primary producers in this country by $175 million. That cannot be allowed.

I would suggest that the government needs to act in that area, because we know that rail transportation is a lot more efficient than road transportation in its use of energy. What we have seen taking place with the railways, beyond their excessive profits, is a major thrust over the last several years in terms of tearing up branch lines. I certainly remember, and I know you will, Mr. Speaker, that just 15 years ago Canada had about the best rail infrastructure in the world in terms of branch lines moving out into communities.

However, the railways in their wisdom decided they would go to two major lines and tear up those branch lines. As a result, there is damage being done to rural communities, to the availability of farmers to ship on those lines. Now there is much trucking on highways, which uses more fuel down those highways. It is really a transfer of the infrastructure cost back to the provinces and to producers.

Although this is a debate on ethanol, it all ties together. We need to be reducing greenhouse gases and the government of the day needs to be challenging the railways on their excess profits and doing a costing review of what they are doing by tearing up railways and reducing infrastructure for the use of communities and producers in our country.

The government should go beyond this bill in providing regulatory authority to allow biofuels and ethanol and go to other areas as well. It should show some concern about the environment by taking other means to reduce greenhouse gases. One of those is to challenge the railways on their destruction of infrastructure to gain more profits for themselves and to heck with the rest of the country.

The bill and the regulatory authority changes would open up some opportunities for the agricultural community. There is no question that is direly needed. As the minister himself has said, close to three billion litres of renewable fuels will be needed annually to meet the requirements of these regulations.

That kind of expansion will represent an economic opportunity, we hope, for grains and oilseeds producers. It will be a new market for Canadian producers. We in fact are seeing that in my province of Prince Edward Island, not so much in the ethanol area but in the biodiesel area. A cold pressed canola operation is now in place with quite a number of canola acres that will go in this spring. This will help the environment in a number of ways. It will give us an alternative crop with which to rotate other crops. It will move us away from our dependence on the potato crop as the major economic generator and therefore we would have less erosion, less use of nitrogen fertilizers and less silting of rivers as a result of growing that alternative crop.

As we go down this road, although it is not all tied into this bill, it is important for the government to also expand funds in R and D and look at cellulosic ethanol and the use of wood byproducts and waste. They might even be able to use it out west for the damage done by the pine beetles. There are many other areas with regard to the whole idea of producing biofuels where we can take what is now seen as waste in many areas, or excess production, and use it in a positive way.

I am nearing the end of my time, but I understand where the NDP are trying to go with the proposed amendment. However, I firmly believe the review aspects already in the bill will cover those members' desire. The review of the economic aspects and the environmental impact will take place as already designed in the bill. Yes, we need to do that. We need to understand what is happening.

We also need to ensure the bill does not just set up a situation where cheap ethanol is floated up the St. Lawrence River and into Canada and also that cheap corn from the United States does not come into this country, undermining our pricing structure and being produced through Canadian plants.

We have to ensure this remains an opportunity for Canadians, especially Canadian farmers, in a way to reduce greenhouse gases in Canada as a whole.

[The Deputy Speaker, Bill Blaikie]

Before I proceed to questions and comments, it is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Gatineau, Official Languages.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my learned colleague has demonstrated his expertise in the area of agriculture and today gave us an indication of his insights into developing economic innovations.

Could I get his comments, especially from an agriculture perspective, with respect to what is happening in the biofuel industry and the implications for agriculture, international affairs and the automobile industry?

My colleague is aware of the numbers the government side tried to put forward and that every time there is a 10% increase in the number of automobile owners in India and in China alone, there will be an additional 200 million cars on the roads requiring some kind of fuel. I know he is aware of those figures. He is aware as well that the international demand for energy consumption is flowing into what we are talking about today, and that is biofuel, biomass and the demand on agriculture production worldwide.

My colleague talked about the production of cheap corn in the United States and what happens not only in the United States, but everywhere else. For example, Nebraska is dedicating an additional one million acres for the production of corn dedicated to ethanol production. It is already producing some one billion gallons of ethanol on an annual basis. Four hundred and fifty plants are scheduled to go into production this year in the United States alone.

With these kinds of pressures, does he not believe that the price on agricultural products, specifically food products, will continually escalate upward and that farmers will be protected by the increased demand that takes place not only in North America, but worldwide and has already hit critical and urgent proportions in Europe today?

I ask him to think about that for a moment while he reflects on the fact that South Africa is already considered the Middle East of the biofuel industry. It has already dedicated over one billion acres of land to the production of biomass for biofuel production. Brazil, India and Indonesia are dedicating literally tens of millions of acres of land that would normally go to feeding the world's hungry, and we are all going to be hungry. There is greater demand in those parts of the world, a demand that reflects back on our obligations for food aid and world commitments that we have already made.

My colleague knows—

[The Deputy Speaker, Bill Blaikie]

I am sorry, but I have to give the member for Malpeque some time to answer.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, we have had a cheap food policy in our country and in North America for much too long. It is one of the things that has led us here. There certainly is a huge desire by the farm community to see these new markets open up.

The hon. member makes a valid point in terms of some of the cautions of which we have to be aware. I said in my opening remarks that three policies are going to collide, food policy, energy policy and environmental policy. We have to be aware of those. We have to be conscious of them. That is part of the reason for the review as well.

In the agricultural sector, I point out that the upward pressure and the price of grains and oilseeds is also causing tremendous problems in the agricultural community itself, especially with our rising dollar and other factors. These very same products that are going into ethanol are the feed stream for hogs, beef, poultry, chicken, dairy and so on. It is causing a cost price squeeze on farmers who are producing these commodities.

As China and India come on stream, beyond the energy use of increasing automobiles on the road, there will be the increasing demand for meat and other protein foods. This is the reality of the world that—

[The Deputy Speaker, Bill Blaikie]

Order, please. One very brief comment and response, the hon. member for Saskatoon—Wanuskewin.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite comes from Prince Edward Island. Not a lot of wheat, barley or such things are grown there.

Would he be advocating that wheat and barley straw, for purposes of the bill before us, be put under the Canadian Wheat Board, yes or no?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker—