Evidence of meeting #7 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was universities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Conestoga College
Well, that's what we did. We did link the two. In fact, if you look at—
President, Conestoga College
I'm not aware that they did that, no. We did it. That's what we did.
In fact, our job placement rate for international students was 86% six months after graduation. That's pretty high.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Did the federal government ever ask you to take any responsibility for fraudulent asylum claims being made by foreign students who were issued permits to your institution?
President, Conestoga College
There was one statement made by former minister Marc Miller, but as far as I'm concerned, that's Canadian border services. The first time we ever heard anything about asylum seekers was when Mr. Miller spoke to that.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Would you have not been able to juice foreign student permit numbers to the levels that you did if your institution had a financial liability tied to asylum claims or visa overstays made by foreign students at your institution?
President, Conestoga College
We were never involved in this from day one. We got involved in international enrolment back in the 1990s. There was no money to be made. We didn't try to make money. We were just trying to meet skill shortage needs. That's all we were doing.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I'm just making a note for the analysts, because I think that's a recommendation that probably needs to be made after what happened at your institution. It was pretty bad.
I note that the Waterloo regional health authority is now charging for non-residents to have births at their hospitals. If the number of foreign student permits issued to your institution had been tied to health care levels or health care support, would you have been able to juice student permits to the levels that you did?
President, Conestoga College
We had our own health care centre at the college. We invested in health care for the students. We don't handle pregnancies at the college, but we had a full health centre at the college, including mental health services.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I have to say that it's kind of a mess.
You were quoted as saying some pretty wild things about Sault College president David Orazietti. You called him a whore, yet I note that your salary is over $600,000. You are now the highest-paid college/university president in the province.
We've heard some pretty bad things about foreign students at your college. How do you reconcile those comments you made about another university president with your present salary and the mess that the region now finds itself in due to your decisions to juice foreign student permits to that level?
President, Conestoga College
First of all, the region is not in a mess.
Secondly, I did apologize about that matter. That was a mistake.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
A lot of polling has said that Canada's immigration consensus is broken. Do you take any responsibility for that, given that you juiced foreign student permits to a level where health care, housing and jobs clearly didn't have the capacity in your region?
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe
Please keep your answer brief, Mr. Tibbits. You have 10 seconds left.
President, Conestoga College
First of all, all our students found housing, and they aren't all living in—
Bloc
The Vice-Chair Bloc Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe
Thank you.
Your time is up, Ms. Rempel Garner.
We'll go to Mr. Zuberi for six minutes.
Mr. Zuberi, you have the floor.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank all the witnesses for being here today.
I'll start with Mr. Kristofferson.
Can you talk a bit about the role the provincial governments play in the recruitment of international students?
President, Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations
Thank you. I'd be happy to.
In the province of Ontario, similar to other jurisdictions in Canada, revenues for universities are based on a provincial grant per student, the tuition of students and international student income, plus some other smaller things. Since the economic crisis of 2008, the provincial grant has been essentially flat. In 2019, the provincial government reduced tuition by 10% and has frozen it there since, in a highly inflationary environment, so in order to make up revenues and keep afloat, universities, to some extent, turned to international students.
We have an opportunity for international student to enrich our classrooms and to cross-subsidize our institutions, but if institutions are just holding on by a tether financially, we can't enjoy the benefits of that.
Any coordinated policy needs to involve the provincial government's stepping up and restoring domestic funding levels. Right now, Ontario universities receive about 21% of their total revenues from the provincial government. When I did my undergraduate at Trent University in the eighties, it was closer to 80%.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It seems from your testimony that the current levels of provincial funding for post-secondary institutions are putting severe pressure on these institutions, which in turn make them recruit international students to cover the costs.
President, Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations
Yes.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
To pick up on that, you said in your testimony that money is being brought into the country and it's more than—if I understood you correctly—the auto, lumber and aircraft sectors. Can you elaborate a bit more upon that and how that is important for our economy?
President, Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations
Right now, in the international situation we find ourselves in economically, having revenue sources like that is hugely important. Our auto sector, as we all know, is under threat, and often people don't realize just how much economic activity is generated by the university system.
In 2022, the Ontario university system, the Conference Board estimated, contributed $96 billion to the Ontario economy in direct and indirect economic inputs that year. That's close to 12% of provincial GDP. International students, of course, were an important part of that.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You said that “bad actors” were generally those outside of the university sector, and I'm assuming, in Quebec, also outside the CEGEP sector, which is post-secondary. You said that the bad actors tend to be driven by profit-driven recruiters.
We've talked about housing and availability of housing for students. Have most of the challenges around housing for students been within the sector of these bad actors?
President, Ontario Confederation of University Faculty Associations
I don't know if I can fully answer that question. We certainly have had bad actors. They're largely outside the university system.
We have had some concern with Algoma University's operations in Brampton, which exploded by something like 1000% in enrolment over the course of the pandemic and has recently been seriously cut back, throwing that institution into some economic crisis. Beyond that, I can't comment on the actual housing impacts.