Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2021

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay. I appreciate that.

Chief Blake, you said you were part of processes whereby you meet with police chiefs from other areas. Can you tell me about some of the best practices you're hearing about from across the province and nationally on how indigenous people are able to pass laws and get enforcement of those laws?

[Chief Keith Blake]

Each community is very unique. Each governance structure is very unique. It's very difficult to give a global picture, other than to say that there is a strong desire within all the communities to have legislation that is reflective of their community and their desires on law enforcement, as well as legislation that supports the safe running of their community and the safety of their community members.

When you look for best practices, there are many across the country. Obviously, my familiarity comes with what we have locally, and I think it really takes a Herculean effort to move this to where there's actually buy-in from our province within the provincial court system. Obviously, if it has to deal with the federal side, with the COVID laws that have come in and the Health Act laws, that is being supported through the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, and that's good to see.

Again, what I always like to say is that it's really important to hear from each community as to what their uniqueness is and how their structures support the community. I will say that in our instance here, there's is a strong community connection. Every two years, we reach out to every single house within this nation. We have a series of questions to ask about policing: what's good, what's bad, what we are doing well and what we need to do a lot better. That gives us the understanding not only from our local government, which is very engaged, but it also gives us the understanding of the community, and that's the voice we need to listen to.

Again, what they do is that they tell us where we need to improve, but they also give us advice on some of the areas that seep into the justice system—again, where it's more restorative in nature.

I would honestly say that the nation I work for—and humbly work for—is a best practice, but there are multitudes across this country that are doing an excellent job as well.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you.

I have one last question for you, Chief Rempel. I understand that the Assembly of First Nations has a chiefs subcommittee on justice and policing. Are you involved with that? Have you reached out to them about some of the concerns you have about the national approaches?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

I have not heard of that, actually.

You know, I am hesitant to participate in these big events, because it seems that there's always a focus on certain first nations and not necessarily all first nations, so I don't feel meaningfully represented by the AFN. It's less so with the BCAFN, and perhaps I should take it to them first and see where we can get some headway with the BCAFN. The Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs might be a good approach as well, but certainly I haven't to date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you so much.

That brings us to Sylvie for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Blake.

A significant number of studies report systemic racism in police services. This results in mistrust of the forces of law and order, and raises issues of the overrepresentation of Indigenous detainees.

How do First Nations police services gain trust in their communities?

[Chief Keith Blake]

That's an excellent question. I think every organization needs to address it and look at it for what it really is.

Yes, that exists in policing. I was with the RCMP for 24 years prior to coming to the Tsuut'ina Nation Police Service, so I can attest to the importance of recognizing it as the first step. Then it is addressing it, and it comes through.... Again, the component I see as the most important within our service is that approximately 68% of our service officers self-identify as indigenous. Those who don't self-identify as indigenous have a very strong understanding of our community. Our community outreach is part of that understanding of not just indigenous culture but specifically the Tsuut'ina culture, which has its own series of traditions, history, language, all of those things. When you become part of the community or engage with the community, you recognize and understand the importance of respect, and you recognize and understand that you may have different opinions. You may have different thoughts. You have grown up differently, but ultimately the common goal, again, is respect from each other.

As I said, in our instance here, it comes through training and engagement, and I can say that most first nations police services are very reflective of the communities they serve. Perhaps that's not community members. In our case, we have four officers who are from our community, but that poses some challenges as well—to police the community you grew up in. Some people find it very difficult, but we also want to make sure that we are mentoring our community members to consider a profession in policing, because that is where this change will really come into play: when we have more representation in policing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

That's all. Thank you.

Rachel, close off, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I will. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Rempel, if I could come back to you, I have two questions. I'm going to put them together as one and then just let you answer, since I have only two and a half minutes.

After the court case in 2018, looking back, would you make the same decision to move toward the land code or not? What do you think would be helpful from the federal government so that your nation has better outcomes for exercising policing authority over your own people with your own laws in your own territory?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

I would, a hundred per cent, still look to the land code. As difficult as it is to have these laws and things enforced and recognized, I believe it is better than the Indian Act. The Indian Act is a very oppressive thing and very limiting to first nations. I have faith in the system, and I have faith that we can work together to address these issues. It just takes an initiative from the federal and provincial governments to actually not just listen to first nations but hear us, hear what the issues are and work together to address them.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The second part of that was: What would be helpful from the federal government to actually make those outcomes concrete?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

Better funding specifically for first nations land management and better funding for the issues around enforcement. From a treaty perspective, looking to tighten up the treaty language and ensuring that there is the opportunity for adjudication, enforcement and recognition of our laws as enactments within the provincial system are critical so that we can actually be self-governing. If you don't have the enforcement of your laws, then you're not actually a self-governing nation.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

For the last question, you talked about how the last inspector was not very helpful but said that this one is. I just want to ask you this: How does it feel to know that there isn't a system in place to make sure enforcement is supported—to know that it's based on a personality?

[Chief Nicole Rempel]

It's difficult. When we talk about systemic racism, that is most certainly what we were facing prior to this inspector's coming in. Now I would say that we have a wonderful relationship. We have a liaison officer who works very closely with K'ómoks First Nation and is very communicative with myself and the band administrator, and that's been really important. There is a willingness to have cultural-sensitivity discussions within the detachment with the officers in a post-COVID environment, and I think that's really important as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

On behalf of the members of the committee, I want to thank our witnesses today for your brilliant testimony and especially for your candour. This is what we really need in panels like this, and we got it in great ways.

Chief Blake, I just want to share with you that the policeman I know best has three university degrees. Before he joined the RCMP he was doing archeological surveys overseen by the first nations. He got to be friends and joined them and was invited to reservations to participate in various activities. Of all the things he did prior to Depot, that may have been the strongest growth experience he had in terms of policing. There are some great people out there. I know that. Thank you for being here.

[Chief Keith Blake]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Members, just before we sign off, I need your approval for two proposed study budgets. One is for this one—the current enforcement study—otherwise nobody gets paid, and one is for the upcoming sex trafficking study. They were distributed last Friday. You should have them. Is there anyone opposed to the budgets as they were presented?

Seeing no opposition, we'll assume they are adopted.

We will meet next Tuesday with more enforcement witnesses. On Thursday we have our regular meeting, and since our request to extend the regular meeting was denied for very specific technical reasons, we have an extra one-hour panel with additional enforcement witnesses in the evening, from 6:30 to 7:30.

That being said, I have a motion to adjourn, moved by Mr. Battiste and seconded by Ms. Blaney. Thank you, both.

(Motion agreed to)

Thanks for a brilliant hour.

The meeting is adjourned.