Justice Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Owen Ripley]

As I was mentioning to MP Fortin, one of the challenges is that it's provinces and territories that are responsible, generally speaking, for the administration of justice, so they often have the specific data holdings. There is a lot of work going on right now with our colleagues in the provinces and territories to improve our national understanding of what is happening in the criminal justice system and, yes, those activities will continue, including in relation to hate crime.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you.

Can any of you please outline what each of the new proposed offences would address and how they differ from the current offences under the Criminal Code?

[Owen Ripley]

Yes, so in response to MP Dhillon earlier, I think I was talking about intimidation and obstruction and how that's very top of mind for Canadians. We ran out of time, so I didn't get to the stand-alone hate-motivated crime.

That one is a new offence and, again, the objective on that one is to recognize and denounce all hate-motivated crime. That is an important change, because it would allow that element of hate motivation to be brought to any charge or prosecution right from the get-go.

Then, finally, with respect to the proposed symbols offence, I described it earlier as recognizing the nexus that those symbols have and the impact they have on certain communities. It recognizes that nexus with hateful conduct, acknowledging the other elements—and my colleague Marianne did a good job of walking through all the elements that you'd have to make out—and that you'd still have to make out all the elements of the offence.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you. I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

There's a minute left if you want to use the minute.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

What specific guidelines, guidance or prosecutorial discretion will be provided under Bill C-9 to ensure that proportionality or proportional and consistent application across provinces?

[Owen Ripley]

There are certain steps that are being proposed in the bill, including—and we've talked a lot about the definition of hatred—putting in place that consistent definition that would apply. We've had some exchanges about the notion of detestation or vilification.

I would highlight, because it didn't come up a lot, that there is a “for greater certainty” clarification clause associated with the definition. It is very clear that it does not amount to hatred solely because it discredits, humiliates, hurts or offends. Part of what the government is seeking to do with the definition of hatred is ensure that there is a clear understanding and a clear threshold of when something passes into that kind of extreme manifestation or extreme emotion, and the way the government has characterized that is through the concept of detestation and vilification.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Thank you, MP Chang.

We're at time, so I just want to take a moment to thank officials for coming here, patiently taking questions and answering them to the best of their ability. Thank you for that.

We're sort of around overtime. I don't have a tremendous amount to add to what we agreed to, other than happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

One point that we would like to emphasize is that the witnesses for Bill C-9 are very much welcome for the next round. Please get them to us by the middle of next week. We're complete on the witnesses for bail and sentencing. That's done, but we do need witnesses from all sides on Bill C-9.

Thank you, and have a great—

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

When is the—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant South—Six Nations, ON]

The Tuesday after the break week we are on bail.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

On Thursday, we're back to this.

Is there a deadline for when we have to submit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

Do it by Wednesday of next week.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Chair, I have one quick question.

Will our mandate and priority for Minister Fraser be scheduled before studies have concluded or after?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

We'll have to ask the ministers.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Could that pre-empt...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Miller]

It could.

Thank you.