Evidence of meeting #143 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Do you know that I'm asking you about these NDAs? You just said, in response to one of my colleagues, that all confidentiality was waived. The purpose of that statement is to try to obfuscate what I'm trying to ask you, which is a very specific question.
Mr. Chair, I'll look for your support on this, because it's now been several times that I've asked this question.
Have the NDAs been waived for the purpose of the McCarthy Tétrault report, yes or no?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Mr. Chair, these allegations were comprehensively reviewed. McCarthy Tétrault had complete access to all current and former employees.
NDP
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Ms. Morgan, you're entitled, and it's perfectly acceptable to say that if you don't know, you don't know, and you can get back to us. That's a fine answer, and we'll certainly accept it. As you can see, several members are concerned that their questions aren't being answered.
As I said, you're welcome to say that you will look into it and you'll respond to us later. It is a pretty clear question, and I would ask you to try again, please.
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I would be happy to get back to the committee with more information on that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Hold on, Mr. Desjarlais.
I will let you ask what you would like. Ms. Morgan is going to get back to us, which I think is a suitable answer. She doesn't need to say any more than that.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Could you be clear what question you would like Ms. Morgan and her team to respond to?
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Ms. Morgan, you responded to a question, and in that response you said that all confidentiality was waived. I want support for that claim that you've made to this committee by way of a very direct answer to my very direct question.
Were the NDAs that were signed by SDTC employees waived for the purpose of the McCarthy Tétrault report? Can you please respond?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Next, we have Mr. Brock for five minutes, please.
October 7th, 2024 / 11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Welcome, Ms. Morgan, to committee.
I'm going to start by following up on some loose ends based on other members' questions to you.
Now, I was rather shocked by your response to one of the questions about the law firms that SDTC and the board are retaining. You said, “a number of law firms”. You also included Osler in that mix. I don't know whether Edward Vandenberg is a partner or an associate of Osler. He has acquired a notorious reputation for giving completely improper legal advice on governance to the former chair of the SDTC board, Ms. Verschuren. She relied on that advice, as did other board members, to enrich herself and other companies she was associated with.
Stating the obvious, the current board is there to restore trust within the system. You are the overseer, and you're going to ensure the prudent use of taxpayer money. Why on earth would you associate yourself with that law firm, when we have dozens of other leading national firms across this country? You said, quite assuredly, that he is not part of giving you any legal advice. Well, how do you know that? Clearly, Mr. Vandenberg is not part of your meetings, but how do you know he is not continuing to provide advice to other associates or partners, who in turn give you advice?
An obvious answer to that would be to cease all operations with Osler, so why aren't you doing that?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
SDTC no longer has any relationship with the lawyer who provided that advice. We have engaged an independent conflict of interest and ethics adviser for the board and the organization from a different law firm.
Conservative
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We engage a number of law firms. Osler provides us—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Ms. Morgan, answer the question.
Is Osler giving you legal advice, yes or no?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
Depending on the nature of the legal advice, SDTC engages a number of law firms, including Osler, on certain issues.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Osler is giving you legal advice on certain issues.
Now, you're not part of any of the operations at Osler, so you cannot say definitively that Mr. Vandenberg is not part of that process. I think, out of an abundance of caution, you should cease operations with Osler.
However, I'll leave it at that and move on.
You talked about taking appropriate action if you discover fraud or wrongdoing. We clearly have evidence of Ms. Verschuren enriching herself in decision-making that resulted in a finding that she breached the Conflict of Interest Act. I also heard you say that you will take steps to recover money. That decision by the Ethics Commissioner was made several months ago. You've been on the new board since June 4.
Why haven't you taken any action?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
In the past four months, the board has focused on taking—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
That's not my question, Ms. Morgan.
Why have you not taken action on behalf of the Canadian taxpayer to recover the ill-gotten gains of Ms. Verschuren? Why have you not started that process?
I don't care about your other priorities. That's understandable. However, you also have a mandate to recover funds. If that mandate didn't come from the minister himself—I'm listening to your responses—it is still part of the new governance system.
Why have you not taken steps to recover money for the taxpayer?
Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
It has taken a few months for the board to get up and running and to start putting in place the processes to deliver on its mandate, including—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Are you getting legal advice, ma'am, on how that process should take place to recover funds, yes or no?