I think it's disgraceful that this was shut down, because the reality is that we have to get at this. I think we have a massive problem with infectious disease in our prisons. The reality is that those problems then spill into the general population. I think people deserve honest answers, particularly when the actual use of drugs is either unchanged or when, as I've said, in one instance random testing has shown it has gone up.
Ms. Pate, we had Mr. Jones before committee. He was echoing many of the concerns we heard from the Correctional Investigator, from Madam Arbour, and many others. He gave us a quote that said the direction the government is heading in with respect to its crime agenda and corrections “contradicts evidence, logic, effectiveness, history, justice, and humanity”. He essentially was saying the same things that Jackson and Stewart said, that we're heading to the American disaster. Would you agree that this is the trajectory we're headed along right now?