Transport Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Arun Thangaraj]

The government announced an investment in the new fleet outside of the corridor. These are for the long-haul fleet, typically the Canadian or the Ocean, which will consist of locomotives as well as specialty cars. We wanted to give an update on where that is in process. Via has launched some of the pre-procurement activities. For example, they have a request for information just to do a market sounding of what is available. Then, based on the information that is currently being reviewed, that will allow them to look at how they would structure a request for qualification and eventually a request for proposals for the procurement of that fleet.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Is there a target for the new Via Rail fleet entering into service? Is there a timetable?

[Arun Thangaraj]

I don't have a date for that.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Right.

Is that because it doesn't exist or is it because you don't know?

[Arun Thangaraj]

I don't have information on the date, the potential in-service date. They're going through the procurement process, which will inform when they will be able to pick a partner to be the preferred vendor for those things. That will inform the in-service date.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am asking you this question because last year, Via Rail publicly admitted that in ten years, its existing fleet would probably not be operational. I wondered whether there was going to be a new operational fleet before ten years from now, because otherwise, there will be no long-haul trains left, if I understand correctly.

[Arun Thangaraj]

I don't have that information now, but if the committee asks, I can see if I can find out.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

My first question is for you or one of your colleagues. Has the technical problem experienced on Labour Day with one of the trains, and I unfortunately no longer have the number in my head, been resolved? Could this problem arise in other trains of the same model?

[Lisa Setlakwe]

Both problems have been resolved. The train had a mechanical breakdown and Via Rail was not equipped to repair it on site. We wondered whether that problem might recur elsewhere. The studies will tell us more, but from what we see at the moment, it is not a systemic problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Given the on-time performance challenges that Via Rail faces, many of them related to the fact that they're sharing tracks with other carriers, the three-hour notification requirement or protocol seems quite short. How often does Transport Canada get notified by Via Rail about delays of three hours or greater?

[Lisa Setlakwe]

I don't have the exact frequency. We have the data. I just don't have it on me. It's something we could get back to you on.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I was thinking about how, during the pandemic, we saw airline passengers stranded on the tarmac on board airplanes for well over three hours. Does Transport Canada have a similar protocol with the airlines to notify the agency when there are delays of greater than three hours?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Operationally, in a situation, for example, when there is a tarmac delay or a weather delay, airlines, let's say with our Transport Canada situation centre as well as with officials in the department, will notify us of what is going on and the anticipated time to resolve it. It's an operating protocol they have that we established, probably during the pandemic, but that continues to this day.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is it a similar threshold in terms of the notification period?

[Craig Hutton]

The notification period with respect to—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

I'm having a little trouble focusing on the witness testimony. I wonder if....

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

I'm just going to ask all members to please keep their speaking on the sidelines to a minimum while the line of questioning is taking place.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I was trying to send you a signal. It's all good.

[Craig Hutton]

The notification period with respect to airlines is usually for delays or cancellations that are beyond the window of an hour, because that's sort of the threshold at which it's difficult for an airline to make up the time in the air. That's on departure.

If there's something unusual about it, in terms of a situation that will have significant knock-on effects with, say, 10% of air passengers, that's when we get notified by a particular carrier of—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Wow. That's a lot of notifications. As someone who flies a lot, I can tell you that there are a lot of delays.

What would Transport Canada have done if Via Rail had notified the agency at the three-hour mark in the case of the Via Rail incident between Montreal and Quebec?

[Lisa Setlakwe]

I can start.

Our regulatory framework is about making sure that there are no fatalities—no lives lost. It's all about the safety of passengers.

Normally, when they inform us that there's a situation happening, we will reassure ourselves that they are taking the steps necessary. Do we need to start making accommodation for transferring passengers? Do passengers have access to bathrooms, water, food and those sorts of things?

We will be asking those questions, but Via Rail and all of the operators have an obligation to have those plans in place. As part of this, these are the things we are reviewing with them to make sure that their plans are.... We're not prescriptive, but they basically have to make sure that passengers are safe.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is.... They're an arm's-length Crown corporation and, as the minister said, it's up to them to keep passengers safe and to deal with issues when they crop up. I'm just curious where that line exists between expecting them to meet their mandate and get passengers where they need to go and Transport Canada flying in on a helicopter and starting to tell them which bathrooms should be used when and that kind of thing.

What kind of hands-on approach would Transport Canada be equipped to provide? Are you going to direct Via Rail and tell them they need to do another water service and hand out more granola bars? It seems to me like they were doing everything they could, given the resources they had.

In an emergency situation, do you go in and direct their staff to do things differently?

The minister at the time seemed very upset that they didn't notify Transport Canada, but I'm unclear as to what Transport Canada would do with that information.

[Arun Thangaraj]

In a situation such as that, the operational response is solely the responsibility of Via Rail. We get informed to make sure that the safety elements are covered off. For example, if it was due to a trespass or a derailment, that is where our role would kick in on the operational aspects of this, but they have to communicate with us in order for that to happen. They have to communicate those things to us within a prescribed amount of time, so that we can provide assurances around safety.

On the in-passenger, do we care about the passenger experience? Of course we do, but we will not operationally direct Via on the response on something like that.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. You might confirm that other operators aren't going to pose a risk to the train that is broken down, etc. That's clear to me.

If I could, Mr. Chair, I'll just ask one more question.

In the airline sector, we now have passenger protection regulations, as flawed as they may be. There has certainly been a discussion about similar regulations in the passenger rail sector.

Where are discussions at within Transport Canada on rail passenger protection regulations, so that passengers would get the compensation they deserve in situations like this?