Debates of Oct. 6th, 2025

Military Justice System Modernization Act

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that is a tough question for me to answer. Again, I do not profess to know every paragraph or clause of the legislation yet.

Political interference is something we all have to watch out for at all times. I think that in this case, our leadership needs to be reviewed, but at the same time, we cannot make decisions hastily on false accusations either. Whether the bill would fully solve that or not, I am not sure, but ultimately it is something we should all be cautious of.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Sudbury.

We are here today to debate an important bill: Bill C-11, the military justice system modernization act. This bill addresses the long-standing concerns raised by victims and survivors in the Canadian Armed Forces and veteran community. This bill is a crucial step in responding to sexual trauma in the military.

As a government and as elected members, we have a duty to ensure that veterans and those currently serving in the Canadian Armed Forces receive the support and justice they deserve. Bill C-11 marks a turning point in this journey.

No one can fully understand the relevance of Bill C-11 without grasping the scope of military sexual trauma and its repercussions. Military sexual trauma, also known as MST, is a serious problem that affects a large number of veterans. It encompasses experiences of sexual harassment, assault and other forms of sexual violence that occur during military service. This type of trauma can have lasting and devastating effects on the lives of those who experience it, as it can impact their mental health, emotional well-being, personal relationships and overall quality of life. The effects of this type of trauma extend beyond the individual and are felt in families, personal relationships and communities.

It is a systemic problem that affects many people who have dedicated their lives to serving our country. The Sexual Misconduct Support and Resource Centre provides support services for current members of the CAF, as well as for veterans. However, it can be difficult for victims to seek help and request the services they need.

Bill C-11 is an historic piece of legislation that recognizes and responds to the unique needs of survivors of military sexual trauma. For too long, MST survivors have faced insurmountable barriers to obtaining justice and holding perpetrators accountable for their actions. Bill C‑11 introduces measures that enhance transparency and accountability within the military justice system. This bill implements recommendations made by former justices Fish and Arbour to strengthen the military justice system. It provides a mechanism that will allow survivors to file complaints in a way that respects their dignity and ensures that their voices are heard.

This bill establishes a clear framework for investigating and responding to allegations of sexual misconduct while also promoting an environment of accountability and justice. In doing so, it not only supports survivors in their quest for justice, but also sends a strong message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated in the Canadian Armed Forces. Through this legislation, we are proposing transformative measures to transfer the investigation and prosecution of sexual offences alleged to have been committed in Canada by members of the Canadian Armed Forces to the civilian system.

Another pivotal element of Bill C‑11 is its emphasis on culture change within the military and veteran communities. Addressing MST effectively requires a shift in attitudes and behaviours at all levels of the military establishment. Ultimately, this legislation will help us create a safer, more inclusive and more respectful workplace where CAF members can thrive.

As I mentioned earlier, this bill will also have a significant impact on veterans. The trauma resulting from these experiences can often lead to a range of challenges, such as PTSD, depression, anxiety and other mental health issues. These challenges often arise years after their service has ended.

It is therefore the responsibility of Veterans Affairs Canada to support veterans. This department will continue to play a crucial role in supporting individuals who have experienced sexual violence in the military, by ensuring that they have access to the resources they need to recover from their trauma and by advocating for their needs. Veterans Affairs Canada places the highest priority on ensuring that veterans and their families have access to the services they need when and where they need them.

That is why the department offers a whole host of programs and supports for individuals who become ill or injured in the line of duty, including victims of military sexual trauma. Veterans Affairs Canada ensures access to specialized services and to the supports needed to appropriately address impacts on their personal health and well-being. We are committed to meeting their needs.

The collaboration between the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada will help ensure the well-being of those who serve and have served our country in uniform.

I would like to acknowledge the government's determination to implement this important bill, which will change the lives of many members of the armed forces, as well as veterans. There was an urgent need to undertake this reform of the military justice system and put in place the legislative changes needed to effectively address the issue of MST.

This government's commitment to improving the military justice system, strengthening support for survivors and fostering a culture of respect and accountability remains unwavering. It is a collective responsibility that requires the co-operation, understanding and action of all stakeholders concerned.

Our government recognizes the unique needs of the women and men who have experienced sexual trauma while serving in the Canadian Armed Forces. That is why we are taking action by introducing this essential bill. I hope that all of my colleagues in the House will support this bill, which is important for our country's military community and veterans.

In closing, I want to reaffirm our commitment to those who have served our nation. MST is a serious problem, but by passing Bill C‑11, we will take an essential step toward tackling it with the seriousness it deserves.

I want to thank all the members of the Canadian Armed Forces and the veterans who have served our country and sacrificed so much to protect Canada, our democracy and our values. It is our turn to support them, and Bill C‑11 is part of our crucial measures for improving the culture in the Canadian Armed Forces.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her intervention. She had over two minutes left. She needs to talk to her staff or to the minister's staff, whoever wrote her speech for her. They could have filled it in a bit more.

I wonder if the member wants to comment on the concerns we have on our side with the soft-on-crime policies the Liberals have brought forward, which are permeating our civilian courts. They are putting everybody out on bail with the lowest conditions possible. We also see that perpetrators of sexual assault, sexual interference and sexual exploitation get to serve their time under house arrest. Those who commit those crimes within the military would have access to the civilian largesse that is coming from the government. I would ask the member if she agrees that civilian penalties should be applied to military members.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his concern about the length of my speeches, but it is unnecessary.

The civilian police already has the necessary jurisdiction in these matters. Once this legislation is passed, they will have exclusive jurisdiction over this information. We expect all police forces in Canada to act within their jurisdiction and enforce the law.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we saw that the Liberal defence minister turned a blind eye to all the allegations against Mr. Vance. He pretended he had not received them.

My colleague spoke about the need to take action. I think it is good to ensure that the process is no longer exclusively in the hands of the military. However, the Minister of Defence will be the one appointing the judges.

Should this not be expanded so that the process does not depend solely on politics? That is one way to ensure that it is truly objective and fair.

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with regard to this suggestion, I invite my colleague to vote in favour of Bill C‑11 and then make the necessary changes in committee.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad that my hon. colleague left us two minutes more to ask questions and that she did not repeat the same points that have been said in the House.

I have a quick question for her. How many of Madam Arbour's 48 recommendations have been implemented, and when should we expect all of them to be implemented?

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, of Madam Arbour's 48 recommendations, 34 have been implemented. The aim is to have all of them implemented by the end of the year.

I would like to mention that Bill C‑11 is the response to recommendation 5, which will truly enable all of these measures and recommendations to be implemented.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, I welcome the new member to the House of Commons.

We have heard from survivors that the government does not consider the transfer of cases to the civilian justice system enough. Many have argued that if, for example, a victim is from Alberta, an accused lives in British Columbia and witnesses to an assault are from Quebec, local police units are not adequately resourced or equipped to handle the case.

Do the Liberals agree that dedicated time at committee will be needed to investigate models for civilian police to ensure a national standard for all victims?

[Tatiana Auguste, Liberal, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yes, I really hope that this bill will pass at second reading in the House so that a committee can study it and examine all our needs.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in support of Bill C-11, the military justice system modernization act.

As a member of the Standing Committee on National Defence, I know how important this bill is to the military community and to veterans.

I would like to spend some time today talking specifically about the importance of creating lasting and meaningful cultural change in the Canadian Armed Forces, as well as our efforts toward the modernization of the military justice system.

All members of the House know the outstanding work that our Canadian Armed Forces carry out on behalf of Canadians both here and abroad. Our forces deploy all over the world, responding to regional crises, participating in international exercises and so much more. Our forces also deploy here at home to support Canadians, as we have seen in some specific incidents.

As the Minister of National Defence and many of my colleagues have already mentioned, it is our job to support our brave men and women in uniform. They carry out crucial work to keep Canadians safe, and it is our responsibility to create a professional and safe work environment for them so they can strive to reach their fullest potential. This is what Bill C-11 is all about. Bill C-11 proposes to reform the military justice system to ensure it is more transparent so that it can respond effectively and efficiently to the needs of our members.

Over the past few years, National Defence has received various external reports and reviews. These include the independent external comprehensive review and third independent review of the National Defence Act, which were overseen by former Supreme Court justices Louise Arbour and Morris Fish, respectively. These reports speak to the need to reform and modernize the Canadian Armed Forces to ensure that misconduct in any and all forms is a thing of the past. This is about restoring trust in our institutions and proving to our members that when they come forward with any concerns regarding misconduct in the workplace, these concerns will be taken seriously.

Before delving in to the broader cultural change efforts being undertaken at National Defence and in the Canadian Armed Forces, I would like to lay out the changes that are proposed in the bill in question. The proposed amendments to the National Defence Act seek to, first, modify the process for the appointment of the Canadian Forces provost marshal, the director of military prosecutions and the director of defence counsel services; second, expand the class of persons who are eligible to be appointed as a military judge to include non-commissioned members; third, affirm the judge advocate general's respect for the independence of authorities in the military justice system while exercising its superintendence of the administration of military justice; fourth, expand the class of persons who may make an interference complaint and provide that a member of the military police or person performing policing duties or functions under the Canadian Forces provost marshal's supervision must make such a complaint in certain circumstances; and fifth, change the title of the Canadian Forces provost marshal to the provost marshal general to align with the titles of other senior designations in the Canadian Armed Forces, such as the surgeon general, the chaplain general and the judge advocate general.

The amendments proposed in this bill aim to reform the military justice system by making it more transparent and responsive to the needs of Canadians. However, these crucial institutional changes are only one aspect of our efforts.

National Defence is grappling with the difficult realities and experiences of our military and civilian members, including some who have been the targets of wrongdoing, harassment and crimes of a sexual nature. The Minister of National Defence has therefore started taking important steps to prevent this problem and find possible solutions.

One of the principal examples of our efforts is the creation of the sexual misconduct support and resource centre. This centre is a major step forward in providing supports to our members. The centre and its resources are available to current and former defence team members, cadets, junior Canadian Rangers aged 16 and older, and family members of the defence community. This means we are able to provide real support to all those who are affected.

We also doubled down on our efforts with the creation of the chief professional conduct and culture in 2021.

That individual is responsible for developing policies and programs to address systemic misconduct, improving tracking mechanisms for reports of professional misconduct, and leading efforts to develop a professional conduct and culture framework that tackles all types of discrimination, harmful behaviour, biases and systemic barriers.

The steps we are taking to respond to Justice Arbour's 48 recommendations and those from the other reports will ensure that future generations of the Canadian Armed Forces have access to more resources and a healthy and respectful work environment. However, we know there is a lot more work to do. Bill C‑11 is just the first step.

I would now like to discuss the measures that National Defence is taking.

To provide context and set the scene, we should start with Justice Arbour's report, “The Report of the Independent External Comprehensive Review”, also known as the Arbour report. In April 2021, Justice Arbour launched a comprehensive review with the aim of examining harassment and sexual misconduct in the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. This was a comprehensive review that spanned over 12 months. Justice Arbour carefully reviewed all policies, procedures, programs, practices and culture in National Defence and the military justice system. The final report included 48 recommendations, 17 of which could be immediately acted on. The previous minister of national defence accepted all 48 recommendations on May 30, 2022.

I would like to highlight two key recommendations that Justice Arbour made and share the progress we have made on them thus far.

Recommendation 11 relates to the repeal of the duty to report regulations. In the findings, Justice Arbour concluded that these regulations took away the agency and control of survivors in the reporting process, which would potentially lead to the revictimization of these individuals. The repeal of the duty to report came into effect on June 30, 2024, and we continue to work with the leadership to ensure we are prioritizing trust and safety in our reporting as well as the agency and choices of victims, survivors and affected persons.

Recommendation 48 calls for the Minister of National Defence to appoint an external monitor to oversee the implementation efforts of the IECR's recommendations. We took swift action on this important measure. The minister at the time appointed Madame Jocelyne Therrien as external monitor. Madame Therrien provides monthly progress reports to the Minister of National Defence on the implementation of the report's recommendations.

It is clear that our government has been working diligently to make real, tangible progress on the recommendations in front of us, but we know that there is more to do. At its core, this legislation is about protecting, supporting and empowering our people. We know that members of the forces and their families have our backs, and it is our responsibility to have theirs. As a supporter of our Canadian Armed Forces, I am proud to see the investments our government is making in the defence of our people, both through new financial commitments and our commitments to lasting cultural change.

Let me be very clear. The Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces maintain an unwavering commitment to implementing the recommendations of former Supreme Court justices Arbour and Fish. Bill C-11 proposes to help us implement some of the recommendations from former justices Arbour and Fish to ensure that members of our forces have a safe and professional work environment to carry out the difficult tasks ahead of them.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the concerns I have heard from members of the CAF is that, currently, regarding cases going before military justice courts, their legal fees are covered. They are worried about frivolous litigation and that, if they are in criminal courts, they will have to pay for their own lawyers.

Has the government given any thought to what it would do as a remedy for that?

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the work that has been done on this report, and with the multiple consultations that have been undertaken in the formulation of the report and all the recommendations, those concerns have been incorporated and are being looked at. They form part of the monthly progress reports that are provided to the Minister of National Defence. The discussions around those continue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Sudbury for her thoughtful speech. She is clearly a woman of action.

The problem we have with her government in the current context is that it is doing the exact opposite. It has failed to take action on behalf of victims, who are mostly women. In this context, will she commit to putting pressure on her party to speed up the passage of this bill and, more importantly, to speed up assistance for victims?

Victims are often left to fend for themselves, especially when they live in more remote regions, like ours. What resources can we offer to victims in the regions to ensure that they can heal and get justice with dignity?

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree that it is very important to take action. The government is taking much-needed steps at this very moment with this legislation. This bill really has two objectives: to propose a series of targeted changes to modernize the justice system and to strengthen support for victims and survivors. Focusing on those two things is very important.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech.

I also want to thank Madam Arbour for her report, of which approximately 20 recommendations have already been implemented. The face of the Canadian Armed Forces has changed over the decades. Obviously, more women are joining today and that is a good thing.

Does my colleague believe that Bill C‑11 must also be accompanied by a cultural change within the armed forces, so that women are better supported, better heard, and their needs are properly addressed?

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yes, it is very important that this bill help create a more inclusive, respectful and safe working environment in which members of the Canadian Armed Forces can thrive. Our focus is on that cultural change. We are passionately moving in that direction.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, having served in an environment where chain of custody and evidence integrity are critical, I am concerned about jurisdictional overlap.

I would like to have the member tell us how the military and civilian police would coordinate investigations without creating gaps where cases could fall through the cracks.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Speaker, part of the consultations that I referred to earlier, regarding the development of this, looked at all of the jurisdictions that exist among the various parties involved in this. This certainly formed part of the report and the recommendations.

Certainly, the military and civilian judicial processes are both equipped and ready to work together in bringing justice for these victims and their families.

[Scott Anderson, Conservative, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan.

I rise today to speak to Bill C-11, the military justice system modernization act.

Let me say right from the start that I support the intentions behind this bill. It aims to make our military justice system fairer, protect victims better and increase accountability. These are important goals. I think all of us in the House, especially on the Conservative side, agree that justice and fairness must be part of everything we do, including how we run our armed forces.

That said, we also have a duty to ask tough questions to make sure that while we are fixing one problem we are not creating new ones somewhere else. I want to raise a few concerns. They are not political attacks but honest concerns about how this will work in the real world with real consequences for the men and women in uniform.

One of the biggest changes in this bill is that sexual offences that occur in Canada would now be handled by civilian courts instead of the military. On paper, that makes sense. We want victims to feel safe coming forward, and civilian courts have experience handling these cases. This could lead to better outcomes for victims.

However, here is a question: What happens when something like this happens overseas during a deployment or mission? Our military operates around the world in peacekeeping, training missions and sometimes in combat zones. In many of those places, civilian police and courts are unavailable.

If the military does not have jurisdiction over certain offences, who would handle those cases when they happen abroad? The bill implies that jurisdiction overseas would revert to the National Defence Act and be handled under the code of service discipline. In other words, it would be handled by the military. If military justice is not suitable in Canada, how is it suitable overseas? Would victims feel that justice has been served by a system not deemed good enough at home? This needs to be addressed.

The second thing is command authority. Military discipline is different from civilian life. The military justice system exists to maintain order, morale and operational effectiveness. It gives commanders the tools to act quickly and firmly. This bill would risk taking too much control away from commanders. If issues have to go through a long civilian process with no clear chain of responsibility, our ability to act fast in critical situations is compromised. Commanders should not have unchecked power, but they must be involved, especially during active missions. Let us not weaken their ability to lead and protect their troops.

The third thing is independence versus bureaucracy. This bill would give more independence to roles like provost marshal and director of military prosecutions. In theory, that supports fairness and impartiality. However, we must be careful not to create a system so wrapped up in bureaucracy that it becomes slow or even politicized. Our soldiers deserve a justice system that is efficient, focused and responsive, not one bogged down in red tape.

The fourth thing is communication between systems. Let me give members a real-life example I was told about recently. At a military camp last year, a serious incident of a sexual nature occurred. It was reported by the military to civilian authorities right away and the RCMP took over the case, which is exactly as this bill envisions. However, once the RCMP had the file, there was no communication back to the military. As a result of not knowing what restrictions were to be sent down the chain of command, the military sent both the victim and the accused home on the same bus. That should never happen. That is not a failure of values. It is a failure of process.

Nowhere in this bill is there a formal mechanism for communication between the RCMP and the military. Without one, this kind of situation could happen again and again. If we are going to transfer cases to civilian courts, there must be clear communication every step of the way. The military still has to manage the members involved as long as they are active service members and protect both the rights of the accused and the safety of others.

Finally, this cannot be “set it and forget it”. We need to keep watching this bill as it rolls out. That means oversight, regular reviews and honest discussions about what is working and what is not. Because we overcivilianize the military justice system, we forget that it serves a unique and high-pressure environment, and we risk weakening it. If we weaken military justice, we weaken our ability to maintain order, protect victims and defend this country.

I will say in closing that I support the goals of Bill C-11. I support protecting victims. I support making justice fair and seen to be fair. However, we must think carefully about the real-world impacts of these changes. What happens when offences occur overseas? What happens when communication breaks down? What happens if the military loses the ability to act quickly when it matters most?

These are not hypotheticals; these are real questions that affect the lives of our armed forces members and their families. Let us pass the bill, but let us do it with our eyes open. Let us strengthen military justice, not slow it down. Let us protect victims and protect discipline. We can do both, and we must.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton—Bkejwanong, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was very interested in the point my colleague was making about what would happen when these incidents happen internationally. I was chair of the status of women committee when we studied sexual assault in the military, and it was clear that the existing military system is subject to the old boys' club. If someone is in a foreign location, they are forced to work with the perpetrators, and that system was not working. I think it needs a better answer.

Can the member comment?

[Scott Anderson, Conservative, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I can comment only on what exists in the bill. The bill does not have any provision whatsoever to revert to civilian justice overseas. Obviously, it is outside the jurisdiction. The flip side of that question is this: If the military is dealing with only those problems outside Canada, how is it going to maintain its expertise in doing so on the civilian side? That is the flip side of the same problem. There is no provision whatsoever in the bill for civilians, and I would like to see that provision.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member actually following the lead of my colleague from Terrebonne in not using the entire amount of allotted time that he had to speak. We know there are many members who want to speak to the bill, but we also recognize that there is some agreement that the bill needs to go to committee so that we can get it right, so that we would be serving the very people who take so much time to serve us.

First, I appreciate that the member was very concise in providing some constructive feedback. I would like to hear from the member on whether he agrees that the work to advance the bill and to make any amendments to it should be done at committee and that we should do it in a timely manner so that we can actually get to all the recommendations by Madam Arbour.

[Scott Anderson, Conservative, Vernon—Lake Country—Monashee, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I personally believe that a flawed bill should be fixed before it goes to committee if possible. This is a flaw in the bill, and it should be addressed. I am not entirely sure how. There is some low-hanging fruit here, like the interpolice communications, that I think can be done very easily. It simply needs a provision in the bill.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is really important to recognize that in the report we are talking about, there are 48 recommendations, and the government is on track to get 47 of those 48 passed by the end of the year. The wild card is actually Bill C-11. All political entities in the House seem to support the essence of that legislation. Much of that legislation, such as the transfer over to the civil justice system, is already being incorporated in an informal way through the Canadian Armed Forces. We are all waiting to see the legislation get to the committee stage.

Would the member not agree, out of respect for the Canadian Forces and the women and men who serve this country so well, that we should try to get this thing passed before the end of the year?