Evidence of meeting #49 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you for that clarification.
We'll look to clause 10.
Because the only amendment that was provided on this clause was defeated earlier, we'll go to the question on clause 10 in its entirety.
(Clause 10 agreed to)
(Clauses 11 and 12 agreed to)
(On clause 13—Power — Minister
On clause 13, amendment NDP-15 is the first amendment.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
I move that Bill C-27, in clause 13, be amended by deleting lines 12 to 20 on page 5.
This is with regard to the ability of the department to withhold moneys payable as a grant or contribution and so on, if any breach occurs. There are any number of problems with this particular clause.
I understand from the department that this wouldn't affect delivery of health and social services and water and such things, but it still doesn't seem respectful of a new relationship or a nation-to-nation relationship. I'm hopeful that there would be many other attempts to work this out before moneys are cut off.
Conservative
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
With respect, the measures laid out are required to ensure that first nations comply with the act. These provisions reflect those that are already found in the funding agreements between first nations and Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada. Should this motion be adopted, subclause 13(1) would need to be amended to delete the words “take one or more of the following measures”, so for that reason we will not be able to support this motion.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Again, I think the fact of the matter, as he's mentioned, is that when they get funding, they already report on that funding to the department. I don't think you should be penalizing them if they don't happen to get this on the website. The department has the information. They could certainly release the information about that particular funding.
We have first nations who are having a lot of difficulties in some areas, who are already underfunded by this government with respect to their services, whether it be education or whether it be child care, and we're once again saying that we're going to withhold funds if they don't put this.... It's not through any fault of their own if there may be some difficulty with the council that has been elected or if there's capacity or tools missing, so again I ask you to reconsider and to support NDP-15.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Seeing no additional speakers, I ask all those in favour of NDP-15 to please signify.
(Amendment negatived)
We are now looking at NDP-16.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Again, this is more along the same lines. In this particular case, what we would be looking to do is delete paragraph 13(1)(c), which says, “terminate any agreement referred to in paragraph (b)”. Again, it's the same line. It's a paternalistic approach to a nation-to-nation relationship.
As was pointed out in relation to an earlier clause of this bill, if the documents aren't published, the department can publish them on their site, so to take a heavy-handed approach of terminating agreements because the first nation didn't comply simply doesn't make any sense.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Not seeing any speakers to NDP-16, I will ask all those in favour of the motion to so indicate.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Next is NDP-17.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
NDP-17 is, again, amending clause 13 by deleting lines 23 to 26. This is in the same vein. It's “an amount withheld under paragraph 13(1)(b) is deemed to be an amount that is due or owing for the purposes of section 37.1 of the Financial Administration Act”.
I've already presented the argument about why I don't think this whole administrative measure should go forward, so I would urge all members to support NDP-17.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I was wondering about something in relation to this one as well as in relation to some of the other ones that were defeated: if first nations don't have the capacity to do this because some of them are fairly small first nations and there are not a lot of people in that community, will you provide them with the people resources to help them through it?
Director General, Corporate Accounting and Materiel Management, Chief Financial Officer Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In terms of posting it online, which the department will do, or...?
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I mean posting them online or getting the information together.
Director General, Corporate Accounting and Materiel Management, Chief Financial Officer Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Right now, all the first nations do provide the financial statements to the department, so there's no increased reporting burden on that level.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
How difficult is it for you to compile that information and format the report yourselves?
Director General, Corporate Accounting and Materiel Management, Chief Financial Officer Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Do you mean if we were to put together their financial statements?
Whenever it comes to financial statements, for any entity, the management is responsible for what's in those statements. Whether it's a government, first nation, municipality, or publicly traded company, it's management's responsibility for putting those financial statements together.
Of course, they sometimes bring in outside help or have internal resources, and then afterward have auditors review it, if it's that type of financial statement, so—
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
I was asking that question because the tribal council cuts will certainly impact some of these first nations, and they are the people the first nations relied on to help them put this together. I wanted to raise that point.
Thank you very much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Ms. Hughes.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 13 agreed to)
Shall clause 1 carry?
Conservative
Conservative