Evidence of meeting #3 for Veterans Affairs in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Thank you for that.
There were 35 pre-2015 recommendations that are recorded as having been fully implemented. Do you track the dates on which those recommendations were implemented? The fact that they are pre-2015 recommendations doesn't necessarily mean that the implementation took place pre 2015, I take it.
Liberal
Nishika Jardine
This massive document we have here is the full work we do and it has all of the explanations from the department. If there are any in particular that you want us to look for and find out when they were actually done, I believe we would be able to bring them to you.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
Okay. Thank you for that.
I'll go over to the topic that Mr. Viersen raised on the implementation of the PCVRS contract. I'm pretty sure, Ms. Jardine, that you were in this office before the PCVRS contract came in.
Did you receive complaints with respect to the management of veterans' files within the rehabilitation service prior to this contract?
Deputy Veterans Ombud, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
We received complaints, and we continue to receive complaints. What we saw with the PCVRS contract was that, leading in, there were lots of complaints from the union and from providers that were concerned about losing business or things being redirected. There were very few complaints from individual veterans.
When we have received complaints from individual veterans, as Colonel Jardine mentioned, we've gone to the department, and the department has acted fairly quickly on the individual complaints. There's still some friction, I would say, on the provider side of things.
Liberal
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'd like to know something now that we have a good picture of the current situation. Do you know of any other countries that have a way of treating their veterans that we could learn from? I think that's an important element, given the increase in the defence budget. Our situation has changed. We'll never forget the past, but the present offers us an important avenue.
Based on what you're hearing from veterans, are there any countries we could learn from?
Nishika Jardine
Thank you for the question.
I attended the International Conference of Ombuds Institutions for the Armed Forces last year for the first time. While I can't say for certain, I believe countries look to us. As for what I base this on, I was speaking to a German officer, and they said they were coming to Canada to learn about how Canada provides benefits to their veterans. The Norwegian ombud of the armed forces also invited me to come to a conference in Norway to explain how Canada's veteran benefits are designed and delivered.
I take it as a compliment to Canada that others look at what we do for our veterans and ask what we're doing and how they can learn from us.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
It's great if we're inspiring, but I want to know the opposite: Are there countries we could learn from so that we can improve?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.
Mr. Richards, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have a few things I want to ask, but first I want to pick up on what a couple of people have been asking questions about: PCVRS and rehabilitation services.
Ms. Jardine, you very quickly responded to the question of whether you'd had complaints about the PCVRS contract with, yes, you certainly had. When you were asked about rehabilitation services prior to PCVRS, you weren't as certain. Mr. Schippers then indicated, though, that there have been very few from actual veterans.
I'm wondering if you agree with the statement that there have been very few from actual veterans, because that doesn't square with what I know I hear, as someone who's been involved in this committee. I hear a lot of complaints. Would you say there have been very few from veterans on PCVRS?
Nishika Jardine
I think what my colleague Duane was saying was that prior to the award of the contract to PCVRS, we didn't hear as many complaints. I would defer to him, because that was before my time.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB
That's fine. If that's what it was, then I misunderstood. That makes more sense to me.
You then mentioned that typically with those complaints, when they come in from veterans, you pass them on to the person at VAC who is responsible for implementing the PCVRS. What does your office then do in terms of follow-up? Are you able to give us any indication as to whether there ended up being some resolution or whether the veteran ended up being able to get help or some satisfaction from the interactions they had with the person to whom you referred them? What kind of follow-up do you do to determine that?
Nishika Jardine
It is our understanding that the department works quickly to resolve the issue that the veteran was complaining about. For example, a veteran who attended an appointment at the PCVRS office could overhear another veteran talking in the treatment room, and was worried that people would overhear him as well. He complained to our office. We connected that complaint to Veterans Affairs. Our understanding is that they worked quickly to overcome that.
When we don't hear back from the veteran that it hasn't been resolved, our understanding is that it has been resolved.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB
It's more that if you don't hear back, there's not really a lot of follow-up that occurs. Okay, that's fine.
You also mentioned that the majority of veterans you hear from are happy, but you obviously do have complaints. You mentioned, then, in response to some questions from Ms. Gaudreau that it's mostly those who have that struggle with institutional betrayal, or we might call it “sanctuary trauma”. Would you be able to give us a sense or a profile of what that veteran looks like? Is that a younger veteran versus an older veteran? Is there a certain type of service that veteran would have done or a certain type of injury that veteran might have? Is there any profile or pattern to those veterans who experience institutional betrayal or sanctuary trauma situations, or is it random?
Nishika Jardine
Thank you.
To be honest, it's veterans and it's family members. I'm still working to understand this myself. It's ones whose needs are more acute, including survivors—widows and widowers—and their interactions with the department. We've heard complaints about how that's going. For them, there's a struggle with the department. There are veterans who have mental health issues, such as PTSD or operational stress injury. It's my intuition, if you will, which I'm working to validate, that they may struggle more with the department.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Airdrie—Cochrane, AB
You mentioned family doctors being the number one thing you hear about from veterans. I hear it a lot as well; I'm sure we all do. It is very typically associated with the paperwork. I hear all the time from veterans who say, “I cannot get a doctor because every doctor tells me they don't want to deal with all the Veterans Affairs paperwork.” You seem to have identified that issue as well.
Obviously, other than reducing the amount of paperwork, which certainly needs to happen, do you have any other suggestions for how we can either reduce that paperwork burden or help veterans get family doctors?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marie-France Lalonde
I've been extremely generous on my left versus being very firm on my right. Is it the will of the committee to allow Colonel Jardine to answer the question? I want to make sure everybody is comfortable.